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Mon, 03/31/2008 - 12:41
Anybody does wine investment here?
I heard that it is a good hedge against the risks of equities and bonds, etc...
I am actually quite tempted to start on this aspect of investment, probably as a start, will start off by buying wine futures, or "en premier" as they are knowned.
Anyone else? Care to share your knowledge about wine?
Hi Qwerty,
Okay, I have to confess I know little about wine investing. But I do know some people who are into this. I think there is potential for wine investing. You will need to go through a reputed wine merchant to get good quality wine that have aged well.
Usually, if you are willing to wait, you will be able to sell at a profit.
The fluctuation for wine is mostly minimal, from what I know.
Now for the cons,
1. Wine is illiquid.
2. You will need to invest in wine storage
3. You need to have insurance in case of wine bottle breakage.
Jag
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"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
Hi Jag,
thanks for replying. Me too, I am completely new to wine investment and thought that there might be some wine investors or appreciators (wonder if there's such a word) over here.
I have just purchased a wine future recently. It claims to be guaranteed capital return and with quite a high return. 18% for 18 months!!
Since I have some spare cash, so I thought why not just give it a try?
While waiting for it to mature, I am currently reading up on wine investment and related stuff..
For those interested, can visit this website: http://www.decanter.com/
not advertising or anything, just to share with everyone.
Hi Qwerty,
Thanks for sharing. Not to worry, I can tell it is not advertising in your case.e
Wine investing is something that has always interest me. Just that I didn't had the time to learn more about it.
Let's keep this thread alive.
Jag
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"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
Wine investments falls under the category of alternative investments. True it may sound good with guarantees and good historical returns. One has to be mindful when it come to investment into alternative investments.
Don't get me wrong I do not think it is bad, I just think that when someone invest, it should be done holisticly; in view of their objectives, risk appetite, need for money, the relative wealth or absolute wealth of an investor. Investment should not be made because the "product" is a "good idea at that time"
Wine investment is suitable to some people and not suitable to others depending on their overall investment portfolio, investment objectives and financial position.
Generally for alternative investments, wine in this case, is suitable with people with some excess money without the need to use this money in the short to mid term ie. 3-5 years. It may not be suitable for anyone who needs liquidity. It is true that some of these investment houses offer some form of "cash out" option. Penalties may be imposed or some less than expected yield. In this case, the investor would be better off investing into other instruments.
wow superdude1978,
you have experience in wine investment or alternative investments?
I have even heard of people investing in fine arts as well...
Wine investment is suitable to some people and not suitable to others depending on their overall investment portfolio, investment objectives and financial position.
Generally for alternative investments, wine in this case, is suitable with people with some excess money without the need to use this money in the short to mid term ie. 3-5 years. It may not be suitable for anyone who needs liquidity. It is true that some of these investment houses offer some form of "cash out" option. Penalties may be imposed or some less than expected yield. In this case, the investor would be better off investing into other instruments.
Hi superdude,
You are right. Wine is a viable investment vehicle to consider but it is definitely not for everyone. Especially not for those who have a short investment horizon.
For me, at least for the present moment, I probably focus my money on other investment vehicles like stocks. Because I prefer the liquidity.
As usual, your mileage may vary.
Jag
==================================
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
Most of these alternative investments are not regulated by MAS and do not have an active secondary market.
Unless you have
1) spare cash you won't need (can afford to lose)
2) a clear exit strategy
3) know what you are investing or buying into
4) have done your due diligence
it's probably not so wise to go into them.
Visit the Den of the Lion Investor.
Unless you have
1) spare cash you won't need (can afford to lose)
Investment by right, is about not losing money first. And then getting a gain second.
When we invest with money we can afford to lose, even in a worst case scenario of a 100% loss (assuming no leverage), we can still get on with our life without any decline of quality in living standards.
That is important. Because all too often, there are people who plunged in their entire life savings, but only to see them go up in smoke, due to lack of due diligence and chasing the proverbial 'hot tip'. Most of the time, these people are gambling more than investing.
To me, it is always - invest/trade with money you can afford to lose.
Jag
==================================
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
my wine broker has left the company....tsk tsk...
now i am assigned to a new broker...whom i have not met with him yet...hmm...
Which company u invest in? Heard there are quite a few like Universal Assets... etc
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
i invested through Universal Assets Group...
Their main office is at Suntec Tower...but i heard that they are going to move soon...if i heard correctly, they are moving to defu or somewhere around there...
Probably rentals too high now..
I keep on getting phone call from different wine brokers who "take over" my contact details. The attriction rate seems to be pretty high.
Come visit the Den of the Lion Investor for more investing ideas.
oh...you have a portfolio of wine too?
No portfolio. I'm one of their prospects. So, their new brokers keep on calling me.
Come visit the Den of the Lion Investor for more investing ideas.
oh i see...from UAG too?
That time i kept receiving missed calls from Australian Wine Index...because the broker always call me at the wrong timing...haha...i guess no fate...
Come visit the Den of the Lion Investor for more investing ideas.
Me too. Always getting different people trying to get me to invest...got one when i told him i was already talking to frederick, get angry and say frederick should't be talking to me, i'm under his list of prospects and account is under his, demand that i should not talk to frederick anymore. Even says hes going to settle it with frederick... Wa lao behave like gangster and raise his voice at me...Sucks...dun know how they recruit people...hmmm
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
I can't remember which ones actually. There were a few.
Come visit the Den of the Lion Investor for more investing ideas.
For me, personally, the biggest drawback about wine investment is the liquidity. Or rather the illiquidity.
I like instruments when I can cash in anytime I want. Same thing for stocks. I don't do illiquid stocks.
If I have to take up an illiquid instrument, I rather go into property investment - get rental income, flipping and such. Or land banking.
But that's just my personal perference.
Jag
==================================
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
Jag, wine is actually very liquid. You can simply drink it.
Come visit the Den of the Lion Investor for more investing ideas.
haha...actually it depends on the scheme of wine that you bought...
for me, the wine that i bought is an "en primeur" scheme, meaning that I wouldn't get to see and touch the physical bottles of wine...i only get a certificate..
Oh yes. How could I forget?!!!?
==================================
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
There are alot of different schemes? Got can touch and can see scheme?
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
HAHAHA. lots of liquidity...
once you drink it, there goes your investment.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
yup...haha
but i believe most wine collectors seperate their drinkable portfolio from their investment portfolio...
it's too costly to drink...haha...at least in my opinions
True true, you can always walk into carrefour, NTUC, GIANT, Shop N Save to buy wines ... that the cheap version or you could go into specialised wine shops like Denise to get high quality / grade / variety of wines.
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Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
i hardly see any Denise shops around...
but i am getting another portfolio of 'en primeur' wine when i receive news of a new release....since now all deposit rates are kinda low, i think this is quite a good alternative...provided that you are willing to take the risk in the event that the wine brokerage firm collapse...hahha
UAG has moved from it's previous location in Suntec City to Defu Lane. I will be meeting up with my new broker this friday at the new office location, to see how does their new office looks like. I might even purchase a new portfolio of "en primeur" wine since I have some spare cash at the moment and I do not want to put them into the pathetic bank with such pathetic rates.
Will update here again!
I have been to their new office today. It's at Defu Lane. Very nice office but it is still in the last phase of renovation work. The CEO office looks almost like the living room of a HDB 4-room flat!!!
And needless to say, I bought another portfolio of wine today...haha
Chateau La Mission Haut Brion '05
Hi qwerty123,
After bottled, where is your wine stored? BTW, how much you paid for your Chateau La Mission Haut Brion '05?
After bottled, where is your wine stored? BTW, how much you paid for your Chateau La Mission Haut Brion '05?
Hi sky,
you are from UAG, am i correct?
that's the company which i went to on Friday.
I bought it as an En Primeur scheme.
No I am not.
I want to invest in French Wine. So asking around.
I want to invest in French Wine. So asking around.
oh i see...
sorry my apologies...
because there's a wine broker in UAG by the name of Sky...so i thought you are the same person...
sorry again.
After bottled, where is your wine stored? BTW, how much you paid for your Chateau La Mission Haut Brion '05?
Hi sky,
you are from UAG, am i correct?
that's the company which i went to on Friday.
I bought it as an En Primeur scheme.
En Primeur Scheme is ??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
After bottled, where is your wine stored? BTW, how much you paid for your Chateau La Mission Haut Brion '05?
Hi sky,
you are from UAG, am i correct?
that's the company which i went to on Friday.
I bought it as an En Primeur scheme.
En Primeur Scheme is ??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
this will talk more about en primeur...
http://www.decanter.com/learning/basics/en_primeur.php
i would like to share this new website with everyone who might be interested in wine investment...
It's actually a forum...is it appropriate to post it out here?
Sure no problem... from my perspective... i feel it introduces others to another alternative form of investment. Do go ahead... Excessive promoting of that particular company however is not encouraged...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
Sure no problem... from my perspective... i feel it introduces others to another alternative form of investment. Do go ahead... Excessive promoting of that particular company however is not encouraged...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
It's quite a new forum based in Singapore. I go there just for reading purposes.
http://www.wineatleisure.com/wine-forum.html
i referred my friend to wine investment yesterday and he invested $5k into a portfolio of fox creeks reserve shiraz '05.
will be going down to the wine cellar next month once the broker secured an appt with the cellar.
What type of wine is that? fox creeks reserve shiraz '05.
it's an australian wine.
I will look for more information and post it here.
An email from my broker:
Why you should drink more WINES
Wine and Health
Wine heals in many ways
How does one drink wine healthfully? First off, wine like any other item digested, should be taken in moderation. Just like eating 2kgs of chocolate a day is unhealthy, and 15kgs of potato chips for lunch will give bad results, so would drinking 8 bottles of wine a day. Wine, like anything else overdone, can harm your body in large quantities. The key is moderation.
Wine and Ulcer Prevention
Newsweek reported that a study showed wine helps prevent ulcers. In a study of 1800 people, the scientists tested for the presence of helicon bacterpylori, which causes ulcer infections. Compared to non-drinkers, those who had one glass a day had 7% fewer of these bacteria. Those who drink 2 glasses a day had 18%, and those who drank 3 or more glasses had 1/3 fewer bacteria.
Wine and Cancer
Studies show that wine helps fight cancer. Wine contains resveratrol, which helps suppress cancer. The red grapes that go into red wine also have bioflavonoids, which are intioxidants and help prevent cancer to begin with. Third, as a stress fighter, wine is also shown to help cancer patients by relaxing them and helping them fight their disease. (also to drown their sorrows)
Wine and strokes
Studies show that wine help prevent strokes! Scientists figure that the alcohol breaks up blood clots and increase HDL (good) cholesterol in the bloodstream. This keeps the arteries clean. Note that this helps with the common ischemic stroke, but not with the rate hemorrhagic stroke, which is sudden bleeding in the brain.
Wine as a soother
Wine is a calming influence, something that may seem incidental but should not be forgotten. The fact that a dinner is accompanied by a drink which helps the body relax and unwind can help the mental transition between work and relaxation. In addition, people fighting other illness can combat them better when calm and focused.
Wine and General Health
Researchers have found that those who drink 1-3 glasses a day regularly are healthier than those who drink none or those who drink more than that. Hangovers are not caused by the alcohol, but from the impurities that are in the beverage.
Any alcohol, like any other food item, can be used properly, or can be used to excess. Some people are sensitive to the nature sulfites found in wines- sulfites are higher in whites than in reds. Other get migraines from too many tannins, which are found mostly in red wines. While avoiding misuse, we should also rejoice in many benefits that can be had by properly using wine as it was meant to be used- IN MODERATION!
I believe that applies to normal wine for drinking...u certainly dun want to drink up those you are investing in rite?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
I believe that applies to normal wine for drinking...u certainly dun want to drink up those you are investing in rite?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contest theory: More entries = More chances - Concept of Probability.
Time & Tide waits for no Man.
of course not!!!
haha..i can't imagine myself consuming a beverage worth $1000 within a few hours!
Check this out: http://www.wineinvestmentfund.com/lunzer.wmv
I would stay away from Australian wines. As for French, stay with the First Growths.
Purchasing wines for investment is easy. There are many companies out there who are more than happy to sell you all sorts of "investment" wines. But when it comes to selling it back to realise the gain, many fall short of delivering the returns. You should find out more about their valuation ad pricing system.
Also, do be careful and make sure you are provided proper documentation to support the ownership of the wines you purchased.
Check out auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's and Zachys and take a look at their wine auction catalogue to have a feel of the types of wines thats are mostly put on auction (you will notice Aussie wines are virtually non existent). Get a feel of the reserve price of the wines on auction so that you know what are the most sought after labels and vintages.
Here's a recent catalogue from Sotheby's: http://www.sothebys.com/liveauctions/event/wine/L08607_wine.pdf
Last but not least, find out the Provenance of the wines and how it affects it value. And if you broker hasn't tell you about Provenance, than he isn't telling you the risk involve. Read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance
Good luck.....
Check this out: http://www.wineinvestmentfund.com/lunzer.wmv
I would stay away from Australian wines. As for French, stay with the First Growths.
Purchasing wines for investment is easy. There are many companies out there who are more than happy to sell you all sorts of "investment" wines. But when it comes to selling it back to realise the gain, many fall short of delivering the returns. You should find out more about their valuation ad pricing system.
Also, do be careful and make sure you are provided proper documentation to support the ownership of the wines you purchased.
Check out auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's and Zachys and take a look at their wine auction catalogue to have a feel of the types of wines thats are mostly put on auction (you will notice Aussie wines are virtually non existent). Get a feel of the reserve price of the wines on auction so that you know what are the most sought after labels and vintages.
Here's a recent catalogue from Sotheby's: http://www.sothebys.com/liveauctions/event/wine/L08607_wine.pdf
Last but not least, find out the Provenance of the wines and how it affects it value. And if you broker hasn't tell you about Provenance, than he isn't telling you the risk involve. Read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance
Good luck.....
just saw this article...
yeah...my wine are all french first growth wine...
australian wine are more risky...but as the saying goes: no risk no gain...
so an investor has to understand his own risk appetite...
after owning 2 portfolios of french wine, i am thinking of getting a portfolio of australian wine...
Hi, did anyone heard of chateau wine investment under projectmedia? The profit is quite high as it guarantee 195% return in 5 yrs and i was told that one of the lady sold her wines after 8 months and the profit is 135%. Is it a scam?
hmm....i have not hearf of projectmedia...is it a new company? if it is, then you would need to check out the company... furthermore, the returns seems too good to be true...
is there a company website?
Guarnteed return? Of 195% in 5 years? That means an average return of 39% per annum.
Now...I'm curious. Is it guaranteed or projected? Makes a big difference.
I highly doubt it if it is really guaranteed. Do be careful in doing your due diligence first. Look at the contract. And importantly, the fine prints!
If in doubt, get a financial advisor or lawyer to look through it. Do commit money into something you are not sure of.
Jag
==================================
"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed - for lack of a better word - is good..."
Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street", 1987
i tried searching for this projectmedia...but can't seem to find it....hmmm....
Read this...
www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm